In today’s episode, we get to listen again to Joe and Shane’s chat about image optimization. They cover the technical side of image optimization, how the app is designed to compress images across multiple platforms and websites, and the projects currently in development.   

Shane Bishop is a WordPress plugin developer and website performance nut. He’s the lead and only developer of the EWWW Image Optimizer, a plugin that was launched on WordPress.org back in 2012. 

What to Listen For:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 00:41 Welcome to the pod, Shane!
  • 03:17 Getting close to million active installations
  • 08:25 How image optimization works
  • 12:49 Pricing structure that favors users
  • 15:49 API offloading the compression
  • 21:28 Products are designed to work across multiple sites
  • 22:12 Rebranding of the exact DN system
  • 26:59 Going back through all previous photos and images 
  • 29:05 Future plans for the company
  • 32:13 Find Shane online

Episode Resources:

Podcast Transcript:

Joe Howard: Hey, Hey, WordPress people welcome back to DWP MRR, WordPress podcast. I’m Joe and I’m Aragorn. And you’re listening to V WordPress business podcast. We’ve got the savior of a middle earth here on the podcast with us. What’s up, what’s going on this week or going

Shane Bishop: not too much has been a busy guiding some Harvard’s around and helping them avoid all that.

Big bed monsters out there in middle earth.

Joe Howard: Very very diligent of you. We appreciate, we appreciate everything you do to to save middle earth and all that cool air going on the podcast this week. Also known as Shane, Bishop Shane, have we met before? I don’t know if we’ve met at a word camp before, or if we’ve just kinda been digital friends, maybe, maybe the, the latter, I don’t know.

Shane Bishop: Most of the ladder. I haven’t yet made it to a word camp, so that’s on my to-do list.

Joe Howard: Sure. Gotcha. Yeah, maybe in the future, we’ll we’ll get to hang out in real life.

I know we’ve emailed back and forth and I’m a big fan of the plugin that you’ve you’ve built and also interested in, in some of the new stuff you have coming out too. So, yeah. No who you are, the plugins you’re you’re up to once you get people kind of a little background there.

Shane Bishop: All right.

So I’m the developer and founder for the E www optimizer started at about, oh, it’s 20, 19 7 years ago, eight years ago, somewhere in there. Yeah, I think this is seven. Anyway, was looking at a few clients sites and wanting to optimize their images. And I had seen the classic Amazon study back in the day where they talked about how every hundred milliseconds would lose.

Billions of dollars, all that crazy. So I’m like, well, yeah, I gotta have these guys optimized. So I went looking for image optimization, plugins, and there wasn’t much out there smush back then relied on the Yahoo Smosh API, which was, I think in the process of being deprecated or. Maybe it was run by hamster.

I’m not sure it was, it was a pretty frail and often overloaded and not anything like this much plugin we know today. And so I started a new one the www image, optimizer that. Compress images without sending them to a third party API so that you didn’t have to depend on anyone else’s servers to compress your images.

Joe Howard: Interesting. So it’s like seven or eight years is that timeframe is cool. I remember when I first came into the WordPress space and I first started learning about performance and optimization, like image optimization stuff. Okay. I gotta have my image images loading fast. I’m on your plugin page right now.

And I can remember the kind of cover photo artwork as one of the first plugins I saw. Like, and it’s one of those ones that stuck in my head. So if, for people who don’t know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a race car kind of cartoon on the background. And for me, that’s something I see. And I totally like brings back memories of kind of starting off like learning about this stuff.

Yeah. A lot of great ratings on the plugin. It’s like a four and a half stars, almost 300, almost 300, five-star ratings and yeah. You’re like kind of closing in on a million downloads or excuse me, a million active installation. Yeah. There you go. So is that kind of the next, are you kind of looking at that as a milestone?

Shane Bishop: Oh, I, I try not to pay too much attention to that. Cause it makes me nervous may have been responsible for software that’s running on 700,000 sites. Wow. It’s, it’s kind of humbling, you know, just the. This is that many people have trusted their image optimization. There’s a software that I built while I was on paternity leave seven years ago, you know, so yeah.

It’s kind of crazy.

Joe Howard: Wow, cool. So is he www something you started while, or you kind of, I, you know, maybe it was one of those things that kind of started off, maybe not as a business, but just as like a plugin you saw a need for, and you just built and you built it while you were on parental leave. Is that right?

Shane Bishop: Yeah, originally it was just, I was, I had started a little bit of a consulting business, was trying to get some local clients and stuff doing. Just running websites for them, basically building websites and the company name and the one I still use for business purposes is exactly www. And so the eww is just an abbreviation for that.

And also a little bit of a joke. Like you, your images are really gross and bloated, so you need to optimize them. Yeah. So I was on maternity leave for about four weeks and I was like, Hey, I got some time, you know, I’m not getting much sleep, but I got time. So I took one of the existing plugins out there that was the CW image optimizer.

And so it was originally just a fork of that, that one. Was built so that you had to have root access on, on the server. And for anyone that knows what that actually is almost no one has read access to their server. So it’s like, oh, that’s a large market. So yeah, I rebuilt it so that it could use use.

Binary’s built originally on a blue host. Okay, cool. They had surprisingly all the tools you needed to build, build an executable or a binary right on the server already. I was like, wow, that’s kind of incredible. Even now looking back, it’s like, wow, they have all that on their servers and they let me use it

Joe Howard: crazy.

It’s it’s cool to hear that this started on, on parental leave. You know, I think a lot of people think of, okay, I’m taking time off. You know, I’m not going to have much time for anything. But it’s actually like super refreshing to hear that something that was started during that time kind of grew in, became.

Something that powers almost a million websites, man. I mean, that’s, that’s pretty cool. And so is eww EWP, E www, is this your main thing right now? Is this the kind of only thing you focus

Shane Bishop: on? Yeah, right now it’s the only thing I’m doing. And so, you know, seven years ago I was working for our local community college.

And so I was just working on the plugin. Part-time just evening hours, weekends. As I had time and then a couple years in there were enough people. We’re asking for an API sort of usage kind of going back to the way Smosh originally. Well, it still operates. And most of the others operate with, with sending your images to third party server because not all sites were compatible with the free mode of the plugin and.

I started it out latter part of 2013 and thought, well, I’ll start this out. And I’ve got a, I had a free HP virtual server for a couple months that I could use. And well, let’s see where this goes and it took off pretty quickly.

Joe Howard: Yeah, very cool, man. I am a, as someone who runs a business that cares a lot about performance and speed optimization has our customers do and expect us to do it for them.

A lot of people, I hear a lot of people asking questions, like what’s the fastest team to use, or like, you know, what are the what’s, how can I get a good foundation for speed? And a lot of times our answers. You know, there’s, you know, there’s, there are probably good and less good choices to, for performance in terms of a theme, but a lot of it comes when you build a website and especially how the website performs over the long-term.

When you’ve added a lot of images or video files to it, we see that slowing down websites far more than. Purely kind of, you know, bloated code does. And, and yeah, I’m in a lot of kind of Facebook groups around WordPress and kind of slack channels. And every once in a while, people are talking about image optimization and performance and people kind of posting the plugins.

They think are the best. And very, very often I see a www come up as like, it’s, it seems like almost like a cult following, like people who use eww likes really seem to dig it and think it’s like, it’s it’s prime time. I’d love to talk a little bit more about like the technical side of image optimization and, and kind of what makes E www unique.

I think you kind of mentioned a little bit that the way that the optimization works, but maybe we could touch on that even before.

Shane Bishop: Okay. So, the basics of image optimization or, or what most people call in, we dumped my visitation, I guess. Simply image compression. You know, we’re, we’re repacking the bits that make up an image and we’re trying to make it more efficient.

I think you guys posted the other day on Twitter, a link to one of my old articles about how, what did I call it? Packing your bags, packing your bags. That’s what it was and using the, the idea of a suitcase to illustrate image compression. And, you know, if you’re packing for a trip and you just take a whole drawer and dump it into your suitcase, that’s not very efficient, but that’s what cameras do.

They, they see and they just dump it into the image and. They don’t attempt to, you know, make it real small. They use the JPEG format at least. So, you know, that’s good for, for at least the start on compression, but they’re trying to do things fast and they’re not interested in minimizing the file size necessarily.

So, I mean, I’ll my iPhone six, which is not, you know, very modern, but it’s got a 12 megapixel camera and that’s a lot of data. Most screens can’t display that same iPhone six has a one megapixel screen basically compared to a 12 megapixel image. So it can only even display a 12th of that image. So compression is then take your suitcase and you go, okay.

If I want to be efficient about this, I’m only gonna pack the stuff I need. Right. And so if you’re going to the beach, I’m going to take hiking boots and. Probably not going to take a winter parka, so you’ll leave that stuff at home. Right? So it’s the same idea with image compression. When you’ve got a large swath of sky, you don’t need a lot of bits to represent that sky.

You can smooth that out a little bit and, and ditch the quality there. Somewhat. And without even the user noticing it. And a lot of times I look at the images I’m like, that’s a 10th of the size. I can’t even tell the difference. It’s incredible. The, the newer compression that we use on the API, we’ll say newer, it’s been 40 years now, but it’s designed by the folks over at tiny, tiny, ping, and tiny JPEG.

It’s incredible software. I mean the amount of space that they’re able to save without even being able to see the difference. It’s just, it’s kind of mind blowing. Originally when I started the plug and I was like, oh, everything has gotta be lost. This. We can’t be losing any quality, you know? And I, and I was adamant about that.

People started suggesting why don’t you try JPEG mini or why don’t you. Tiny ping. I’m like, oh, but it’s lossy. It can’t possibly be any good. You know? And when I tried it out, I was, I was amazed. It really was, was solid compression. So that’s what we use our API. I didn’t design that part of it cause I’m not quite clever enough for that.

Joe Howard: Gotcha. So it sounds like you have maybe it’s you and maybe a small team of people, right.

Shane Bishop: Me and one other guy I just hired about a month.

Joe Howard: Gotcha. Nice. So you’re starting your foray into a, you went from company of one to company of two. Has how has that transition?

Shane Bishop: It’s going really well. It’s going really well hired a guy that I knew a little bit from he’s living in Missouri right now and I’m in Montana.

So we do everything just like we’re doing, you know, online web chat and stuff. And. Yeah, but it’s been working really good. He’s really been catching on quick with the image optimization stuff and yeah, we’re getting good, good feedback from customers and everything on that. So, yeah, I’m really happy with that.

Joe Howard: Cool. Awesome, man. The. I’d love to talk a little bit also about pricing for image optimization and how you kind of came to the pricing structure you’re at now. I see with a few optimization plugins, it’s it looks like you kind of have a flat rate piece of it and then kind of a per image piece of it is that the pricing model you’ve always had for www or did it start somewhere else?

And you kind of had to say, ah, this isn’t quite working. Let me try adjusting and trying something else.

Shane Bishop: Yeah, back in the day. Well, it was a lot cheaper for starters cause we weren’t using quite as sophisticated of compression and so we have to pay for that. And so some of that’s just handy now on the cost, but originally it was kind of similar to some of the others.

It’s more, it was more of a use it or lose it style. Like he pay five, 10 bucks a month and you get this many images and if you pay 20 bucks, then you get even more images and it’s even a better deal. And that kind of thing. And then when we started off with the tiny pink folks, one of the things that they did that I really liked was they didn’t have user to lose it.

It was, you pay only for what you use no more. And that’s it. And I really liked that model. And so that’s what we switched to back in 2015 and. At that point, we still had kind of the idea of, you know, if you compress a thousand images, you get one price. If you compress 10,000 images, you get a better price, but had a conversation with a marketing professor.

I don’t remember where he was a teacher at, but he, he lit into me about our pricing being too complicated at that point, I think. It’s like four different pricing tiers. And I was just like, well, I could see the pain because I had that same conversation with other people. They were just confused. They didn’t get the math was difficult to work out and there’s just so many questions and he’s like trial, postage stamp price.

And I was like, what? And so he explained it and basically the idea of every image costs the same, no matter what, because it costs the same to compress, you know, the 10,000 image didn’t cost less to process. So. Charge less for it. So that’s when we switched to just flat across the board three tenths of a cent per image.

And we’ve been doing that for. Two three years now and it’s worked out really nice. It’s really eliminated a lot of the confusion around pricing. So I think that’s been a big win.

Joe Howard: Yeah, half the battle around pricing is just getting people to easily understand the pricing. Obviously there is some science behind, you know, too high pricing or too low pricing.

You wanna experiment and get a good pricing at a good point. That’s optimal, but a lot of it is also. Like having people understand exactly what they’re buying and had doing that pretty easily. We have kind of these care plans and we have, you know, different levels, you know, and then we have even other separate levels of kind of like custom websites and it is a little bit confusing.

And I honestly, I don’t even like our pricing table that much like today. So we’re always still trying to figure out how to make it simpler. So I totally get that. Talk a little more about the and this is just for honestly, for me, because I want to learn a little bit more and don’t completely understand the, like what I’m loading on your server versus loading.

Or I guess like, if I were to use something that loads on my server, as opposed to you guys using your server to compress the images, what’s the difference there. And like how can that affect what’s happening?

Shane Bishop: Right. So just to make sure, I, I think you’re talking about like the difference between like on our pricing page, the exact DN or the compression API style.

And so that’s the other side of our pricing where our exact DNS. Goes one step further, basically where the API is offloading the compression. So, you know, your server sends the image to our server, our server compresses. It sends it back to your server, exact DM, instead of sending it back to your server, it’s done on demand on our server and delivered via a CDN, a content delivery network.

So your images are then served from the location nearest to your visitors. Free and more of a speed boost and that side of things, because we’re paying basically bandwidth there in addition to the per image type of deal. We just do a flat rate on that. So everyone pays nine bucks a month unless your site uses ludicrous amounts of bandwidth.

Yeah. So we tried to keep that simple. Instead of people being like, oh, I got 20,000 images. How much is that going to cost? And they’re with the API, even though it’s same out parameters, it’s still, I think causes some issues for people. So, you know, with exact DN, whether it’s a small site or a pretty good size site, I bucks.

And so the technical difference on that, I think I kind of explained it a little bit, but just to go a little bit further with. The API, your images are still then delivered from your server, or, you know, if you want to use a different CDN like CloudFront or stack path, or, you know, any of those out there, go for it.

You know, we’ve compressed your images locally and now. Fast, no matter how they’re delivered then on the exact inside all the images on your server stay the same way they are and all the compression is done on our system. Nothing’s ever sent back to your server on that sorta set up. There’s some benefits to that.

Namely the. The web peak conversion. And that’s something I was thinking we get into a little later and we can go into more detail later if you want. But the web P format has some pretty impressive gains over the traditional JPEG and ping her PNG formats. With, with using a CDN with sending all of your images through our server, essentially we’re able to auto compress or auto convert to web P and deliver the right image based on the browser supports.

So, you know, like safari if you’re familiar with the web P format so far, doesn’t support that yet. Apple’s kind of dragging their feet and say, no, we don’t want to. But at this point, everyone else has pretty much gotten on board. You know, there’s going to be people with older browsers and stuff. I just looked at it this morning and estimated browser support is at 80% for web P.

So 80% of people that can use what P automatically get even smaller, faster images. And they’re getting them from a CDN, which is super cool. Whereas on the, if you’re doing it locally, there’s some, you can do server rewriting. It gets complicated with web P cause because you have to do it conditionally based on, you know, those 20% of people that can’t use what PA.

Joe Howard: Yeah, cool. I mean, I’m just Googling this for the first time web P I mean, I, I had not not heard of this. Maybe I have to talk to my team a little bit about what web peak can do for us. But yeah, I mean, it’s a, I’m kind of looking at this kind of Google developer’s page looks like what P lossless images are about 26% smaller in size compared to PNGs?

I don’t know about that exact number, but it seems like there’s a significant saving. The file size when you’re using a web P and it seems like there’s also a little bit of flexibility in terms of, if you’re delivering to a different browser, you can just kind of like the, you can have the browser choose, like what kind of image it wants to use to load.

If it’s on Safaria may not, it may not play nicely.

Shane Bishop: Possibly, I’m trying to

Joe Howard: think. Maybe I said that wrong. I’m just, I’m trying to get my own grips on it. Right.

Shane Bishop: Right. For the most part, it’s basically just going to convert, you know, the image directly over to that format. And I mean, I don’t know all the details of how they do it either, but.

The main thing is that it’s smaller. In most cases it’s similar to our normal loss of year premium compression that we have right within the, the regular plugin, but it’s able to pack the data differently somehow and get the file size down even better than, than the JPEG format can and to the pink format, usually to.

Yeah, my brain just stopped

Joe Howard: all the time, man. It’s always, this is a usual occurrence on the podcast. Cool. Let’s dive into some of the new stuff you’re doing too. So you have www image compression kind of add scale for if you run your own website, you can get in on it. If you’re kind of an agency or a freelancer, I believe you can use it across multiple sites with a single subscription.

Shane Bishop: Right. Both of our products are designed to be used across multiple sites. The difference being with the compression API, you’re paying perimeter. So, you know, uses on a thousand sites and you’re still just paying per image with exact DM. You pay. Charge per site that you activate on it, but it’s still just one subscription.

You just there’s an account page that you go to that you add all your sites that you want to have active on there. And then you get a discounted rate for each additional site that you had add onto the account there.

Joe Howard: Yeah. Cool man. Okay. So we have www what’s the new thing.

Shane Bishop: It’s a little bit of a rebranding of our exact DNS system.

There’s four things that Google talks about often with image optimization. And that’s why I said earlier, most of us, when we say image optimization, we’re talking about image compression, but. More to it than just image compression for most sites, or at least there’s more that they can do. The second biggest one usually is properly scaling your images.

And that’s where I was talking about the whole, you know, my camera’s 12 megapixel, but my screen is only one megapixel. It’s that kind of idea where you’re trying to scale down the dimensions of an image. You’re displaying the correct size for the page and the device size.

Joe Howard: Yeah. My developers tell me this all the time.

I have, you know, I’ll, I’ll put an energy that’s too big or I’ll upload an image that’s too big for like, it’s something that’s taking up like 300 megapixels or yeah, three, 300 pixels wide. And they’re like, why did you upload. Oh, yeah, she probably shouldn’t do that, so.

Shane Bishop: Okay. Right. Right. Exactly. So that’s kind of the second pillar, if you will, of image optimization is, is making sure those dimensions are accurate and, and responsive for the, the device.

That your visitors using? The third one that Google will talk about is what we, we just mentioned with the web P format. They’ll tell you use next gen image formats. Of course they’re promoting web P cause that’s the one they developed. There’s also the JPEG XR format from a Microsoft. And I believe apple has their own HEIF.

I don’t know how they pronounce that, but I think that’s, that’s the one that they’ve been working on it. Possibly part of why they’ve been a little hesitant to jump on the web P bandwagon, but so there’s a few different ones. Really we do web P just because it’s the most widely supported. It seems to be the one that everyone’s getting behind pretty well.

So that’s, that’s a, we’re throwing our hat in and then the fourth area of image optimization is lazy loading or as Google will usually tell you, if you’re running your site on their page speed insights, it’ll tell you to defer off screen images, which is just what it sounds like. Don’t load images that aren’t on the screen, right?

So. 50 images on your page and the visitor comes and they can only see two of them. Well, don’t load the other 48 yet. Wait until they scroll to them and then load them in of course, you know, there’s some extra consideration in there, you know, how, how soon do you load them in when they get to the view port or, you know, do you load them when they’re within 300 pixels of the viewport, you know, stuff like that.

So, because you don’t necessarily want someone to scroll and miss your image because all they saw was a blank space. So. So those are the four main areas and that’s really what exact in was built to salt. Well, exact Dan was built to solve the image optimization and image scaling or sizing issues along the way.

It gained the ability to do the web piece stuff. And then earlier this spring, we introduced a lazy loader, a. It takes care of the fourth. And it also allowed us to do more with the image scaling issues. And so our new plugin is built to do all four of those things. In the smallest package possible and is easily and painlessly as possible.

And so we called it the easy image optimizer, and so it takes everything we’ve learned with developing exact DM and makes it super simple. You literally buy a subscription, add your, your site URL to your account. Go to the plugin, click activate. That’s it there’s, there’s no more to do. Your site is instantly optimized.

So that’s, I don’t know. It’s, it’s pretty exciting that we’re even able to do something like that work traditionally, you know, you install that you image optimizer, you run a bulk optimizing. It might, you know, if you’ve got 10,000 images, it’s going to take a day and you know, you got all that wait time and it can be kind of a tedious process.

And that’s only the compression side of things. To even try to address the resizing or the web P or any of that yet. So yeah.

Joe Howard: Let let me Hey, would like an example site? What if I have a site? Yeah. With like 20,000 images on it, does the easy image optimizer and kind of all these image optimization plugins.

Is there a kind of a separate piece to going back through all my previous photos and images and optimizing and compressing all those and then kind of doing the same thing moving forward. So whenever like I upload an image to the media library, it automatically gets optimized and compressed or those two different pieces or does it do both.

Shane Bishop: Those are kind of two different pieces and you can use styles. So, so there’s the type of image optimization, like easy image optimizer, where your images are just going through a CDN and it’s the CDN that optimizes them on the fly as soon as your visitors request them. So as soon as someone visits your page, all those images are.

For loaded through the CDN and automatically optimize. So you don’t really have to think about, or these new images or these old images. They’re just images, images on your. And we’re going to optimize them. As soon as the visitor sees them. And then the other style of course, is on the local server, especially if, you know, with some of the managed hosts like WP engine, you know, you only have 10 gigs of space or some of them are even less than that.

And so you might be trying to save on storage spaces. It can be important to go through and use something like our compression API, or one of the other plugins, like image of fire or short pixel to go through and make sure all your local images are properly compressed too. Cause that can be a huge deal.

You know, you might have five gigs of images and slim it down to one or two using one of those plugins. So there still is, is a use case for those alongside of the easy image optimizer for sure.

Joe Howard: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay. I’m learning a ton right now. So I’m like geeking out over this. If people want to check out w w w just to plug in, if you’re looking for like premium stuff and you really want all the bells and whistles, it’s just E www.io.

The new, easy image, optimizers, eww dot I O four slash easy. So it’s all in one place. You can go check it out here. Cool, man. What’s what’s what’s next for the For the E www family. Are you guys I guess, you know, you’re kind of closing in on the million million downloads, a million active installs is that, is do you have anything kind of planned for the next year or something like that?

And you just kind of like rolling with what comes.

Shane Bishop: Right now, you know, we just literally released the easy image optimizer so it’s kinda, you know, see how that goes and see how things roll with that. There’s always going to be, you know, compatibility things with different themes and page builders and different things.

And so we’re, we’re always working with. Plugin off and theme authors to try and make sure we’re, we’re integrating with them properly and giving their users every opportunity to have the fastest site possible. And I guess, you know, some of the things on the radar probably aren’t as exciting as it was all that, but the stuff that I’ve got on the roadmap is more of, you know, kind of clean up and kind of tools, I guess, to do various things around that, that idea of, of cleaning up or one of the things I was going to mention earlier.

With image conversion. You know, we talked about web P, but there’s also a lot of times people will save their images as in the PNG format cause they want it to be lossless and they don’t realize that it’s going to be, you know, it could be 10 times too large compared to the JPEG format. So we have some conversion stuff in the image, optimizers that, that auto converts.

But for all their existing stuff, they might convert them and be a little nervous. And so they don’t delete the originals. And so then I want to, one of the things I want to do is create a tool that will go back through, you know, after they’ve checked things out, they made sure it’s all working, then they can go clean up the originals or with the web piece stuff.

If they’ve generated all the web PM, which is on their website, and then they decide, oh, I want to use something like. Easy IO or exact DM that generates them all the CDN. And I don’t need it all of them locally, and I can save storage space that way. How can I clean those up? And we’ve had people ask about that.

It’s like, well, you can just go on the command line. Right. Everyone loves that. But no, we want to create a tool that will we’ll go through and clean up all those web PM just for them when they don’t need them anymore. And some different things related to that. So those don’t get me super excited, like the easy image optimizer, but, but I think there’ll be useful.

And they’re things that we’ve definitely seen in need for the past.

Joe Howard: Yeah, very nice, man. Cool. Well, we’ll we’ll include some links in the show notes when the episode goes live. So people can go check out all this whether people are again running their own website or whether they’re working on multiple websites managing multiple websites all this stuff sounds like a really positive move for people who are interested in Focusing on performance making sure sites are running smoothly.

A lot of times it’s related to images and how well the images are loading. So cool, man. Let’s let’s start wrapping up. Why don’t you tell people where they can find you online websites? Social media, all that jazz. Sure.

Shane Bishop: So of course the website, eww w.io on Twitter, it’s just easy www IO and. Also have a Facebook page and I believe that’s the same.

I was going to try and pull it up real quick here.

Joe Howard: E www something.

Shane Bishop: Yes. If you search for eww, w your you’re more. The us company out there using eww www and they don’t look like us either. Www IO on, on both Twitter and Facebook. So.

Joe Howard: Yeah. All right. Cool, man. Last thing I always ask guests to do is to ask our listeners for a little five star iTunes review for the show.

So if you wouldn’t mind giving our audience a little ask, I’d appreciate

Shane Bishop: it. Hey yeah, sure. Yeah. Make sure to check out this podcast on the iTunes store and give it, give it. That’s five stars for sure. And make sure you subscribe and all that good stuff.

Joe Howard: Yeah. Right on. And if you happen to leave a review after listening to this episode, make sure you leave Shane’s name in the comments, something you call you learned in the episode so we can forward it to them and give them a thanks for the, for the review we got online and all of that.

Cool. See if yeah, if you’re going to leave a review WP, mrr.com forward slash iTunes forwards right there, make it nice and easy for you. A new listeners, if you’re new to the show, and this is your first episode or your second episode or your third episode. Dozens of hours of content. Go back through small episodes.

Don’t hesitate to binge on some older content, still just as good and may help you in another topic that you are stuck on or having challenges with. We’ve talked about a ton of stuff on the show, so I’m sure there’s a few episodes that Unstuck,

cool. WPA. Dot com WordPress monthly recurring revenue. If you’re interested in selling ongoing support plans maintenance plans supporting websites and using a subscription model, feel free to check out the course. It’s a WP buffs, open sources so don’t hesitate to go grab it for yourself.

Cool. That is all for this week. We will catch you all again next week, Shane. Thanks again for being on man. It’s been real.

Shane Bishop: Thank you.

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